Brilliant Ideas

#37: The Surprising Truth About Why Your Sales Page Isn’t Converting with Gina Whitehouse

• Alyssa Bellisario • Season 1 • Episode 37

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Creating a successful digital product takes more than great content—it requires strategic copy that turns browsers into buyers. In this episode of Brilliant Ideas, Gina Whitehouse, conversion copywriter and host of the 7-Figure Copy Podcast, shares her journey and explains why the right messaging can make or break your sales.

Here’s what you’ll learn from Gina in this episode:

  • The pivotal moment when Gina realized that sales pages are the key to product success
  • Why beautiful websites often fail without copy that speaks to your audience’s struggles and needs
  • The importance of your “vehicle”—how to clearly communicate what makes your offer unique
  • How freebie swaps with aligned businesses outperformed expensive Facebook ad campaigns
  • Why your About Page is your hidden sales page—52% of homepage visitors go there next
  • The mindset shift needed for long-term entrepreneurial and digital product success
  • Why you shouldn’t give up too quickly—give your product at least six months to gain traction
  • The value of serving early customers exceptionally well to generate strong testimonials that sell

If you’ve struggled with underperforming digital products, this episode provides actionable insights on copywriting, sales pages, and messaging that actually convert.

Connect with Gina:

Website

Instagram

LinkedIn

7-Figure About Page Checklist

About Page Workshop 

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Gina:

Yeah, the more you fail, the more you figure out what doesn't work. Until you finally get to that thing that does work. You have to hear a lot of no's till you get to that yes.

Alyssa:

Welcome to Brilliant Ideas, the podcast that takes you behind the scenes of some of the most inspiring digital products created by solopreneurs just like you. I'm your host, alyssa, a digital product strategist who helps subject matter experts grow their business with online courses, memberships, coaching programs and eBooks. If you're a solopreneur with dreams of packaging your expertise into a profitable digital product, then this is the podcast for you. Expect honest conversations of how they started, the obstacles they overcame, lessons learned the hard way and who faced the same fears, doubts and challenges you're experiencing, from unexpected surprises to breakthrough moments and everything in between. Tune in, get inspired and let's spark your next big, brilliant idea. What is the difference between a digital product that flocks and one that sells isn't the quality of the offer, but the words that sell it.

Alyssa:

This week on Brilliant Ideas, I'm joined by Gina Whitehouse. She's a conversion copywriter, host of the 7 Figure Copy podcast and creator of how to Write an About Page that converts visitors into buyers. In this episode, gina shares the turning point that showed her why copy and sales pages have to work together, the biggest mistakes business owners make when writing their own copy, and why your about page is more than just a bio it's your secret sales pitch. She also breaks down what she's learned from testing Facebook ads and freebie swaps and why small targeted email lists can sometimes outperform big ad spends. If you've ever created a course, coaching program or digital product and wondered why the sales didn't match your effort, this conversation will give you the clarity and tools to start turning browsers into buyers. Let's dive in. Welcome to the show, Gina. Thanks for being here.

Gina:

Thank you so much for having me, alyssa. I'm excited to chat today, me too.

Alyssa:

And before we jump in, I just want to share a little backstory.

Alyssa:

So Gina and I actually worked together when she was creating her funnel for her about page workshop and I helped her build out the strategy and structure behind the scenes. So I have a front row seat to how much thought and intention went into all of the workshop and everything in it, and so, seeing how successful the workshop has been and how much impact it's had on your audience, I knew that I wanted to have you on the show to share more of your journey and your insights on today's episode, and so I'm really excited to dive into the story because I know that there was a huge turning point for you earlier in your business journey. So, back when you launched your first course, I know that you put a lot of time and energy into creating it, and then you realized how important the right copy and messaging are when it comes to actually selling your offer. So can you share what that launch was like? So just giving a brief overview and what it taught you about the power of a strong sales page.

Gina:

Yeah, so let's talk about that. So this was actually for a previous business that I had almost 10 years ago. It's been so long I have to think and put myself back in that place. But yes, so at that time I was doing some business coaching for people who were stay at home moms and they wanted to build a business but be home with their kids, and so I wanted to put together a program for them, just a small course teaching them how to sell online without you know, without the sleazy sales tactics you know, and so that's what I did. I put together a course called Social Influence and boy I mean, there's so much that goes into putting any kind of digital product together, any kind of course, things you know, like putting together the thing, there's just that right. And then all of the social media posts to promote it, all the emails that are going to go out to your email list, pre-launch right, and then after launching it, there's just so many different components launching it, there's just so many different components.

Gina:

So the day that I sat down to actually write the sales page, write the page that actually sells the product, that's when it all hit me and the anxiety kind of kicked in and I realized, oh my gosh, if I don't write this in a way that actually compels that person to buy, then all of that effort that I put into creating this course and promote it would fall flat. So it was at that time that I got connected to a conversion copywriter, which is what I do now. I'm a conversion copywriter. So someone connected me to a copywriter and I met with her and I said, okay, this is actually an area where I need to invest in my business, because I've invested all this time. Now I need to sell it. So I hired her to write the sales page and when she gave me the copy, I was just like, oh my gosh, this is written so well, this is so good, so many things that I hadn't thought of putting on the sales page.

Gina:

And so when I finally went to launch it, I had a good launch. I actually had people who bought the program, which was so great, you know, actually had people who bought the program, which was so great, you know. So that's kind of the story there. I'm just like many of those people you know that probably listen to your podcast. You've got something good to put out there, but at that time when you have to sit down and write that sales page, it can really shake you a little bit right. You get into your head and you think wow, you know, is my writing good enough to do this? And my writing was decent, like um, it wasn't terrible, but I just knew I needed just something a little bit more polished. So that's that story there.

Alyssa:

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because not everybody can write great copy, and that's okay, because that's it's not supposed to be that. We're great in every little thing in a business, so a conversion copywriter would actually help you more than you would if you were sitting down and writing it yourself. And you know it's not just having also, it's not just having a great offer. I mean, you can have the most amazing offer and so many bonuses and so many things that you offer, but it's it's really not even about having the great copy either. It's how the copy and the sales page together work together to guide someone from being curious Ooh, what is that? To saying, yes, you know, they have to blend in together. They can't be siloed where you have one great offer but like, and they have to blend together in order to create a really awesome offer that sells.

Gina:

Yes, and it's very similar to even when you look at it from the perspective of having a beautiful website. Right, you can have a beautiful website for your business, but if the words on the page don't speak exactly to your target audience, if it doesn't speak to their struggles and their needs, like you could have a beautiful webpage, but if but the words don't aren't up level right, if they don't connect, then that beautiful sales page isn't going to do you anything.

Alyssa:

Yeah, and you know what's interesting I'm saying it. I mean, a lot of people are relying on ChatGPT to write their website copy and I have a bit of a problem with that because it's just, yes, you can train it and make it sound like you. But when we think about the human side of copy, that cannot be duplicated the way like AI is. We're not there yet, maybe in the future, but I still feel like a conversion copywriter would bring out that human side.

Gina:

Yeah Well, when it comes down to a lot of the stuff with AI, I would always say is that AI won't do the research for you. You know you can prompt it to give you oh, give me some general research on this type of person, on my ideal client avatar, you know, on and on, but they're not actually going to call your clients and your past customers and ask them those questions. And that's what I do for my, for my clients. That's why they, they spend the extra bucks, you know, to get the exact words and phrases that their customers and clients are saying. And then we take that and we put it onto the sales page so that when someone hits it they think, oh my gosh, how did she get in my own, how did she get in my head? That's right.

Alyssa:

Yeah, yeah, it is the key. Yeah, it is, and so why would so? When we talk about the connection between messaging and your and the sales page, why do you think that is so critical? Like, what is one mistake that you see people making when they try to handle it all themselves?

Gina:

Yeah, that's a good question and I think we just hit on it. It's what we just hit on, it's the research, and I think a lot of people forget to do that research, or even some of us are timid, right, we're just like timid to go back to those people that we've worked with and ask them the simple questions, things like you know, how did you feel or what was the struggle that you had before you bought this product or before we worked together, and then asking the inverse how do you feel now that we've worked together? Or how have you seen your life change or your business change over the last six months since we've worked together? Right, we get so busy, too, that we forget to go back and we forget to ask those questions, and so that's, that's some of the some of the things you know. I think that's one thing that people get wrong. The other mistake that I see a lot is that people are selling themselves or their, their product, program or service, and they're not actually selling the vehicle. Do you know what I mean by the vehicle? Do you want me to go into that? Go into that, okay.

Gina:

So let's say you land on a sales page and you know. You see the headline in the sub headline and then you scroll down and you see a bit of okay, we're talking about now, about the pain points, we're talking about the challenges, and then suddenly someone starts to say, hi, I'm Gina and I can help you overcome blank, blank, blank, right. So you introduce yourself Now. Yes, you should be introducing yourself on your sales page, absolutely. But if you introduce yourself too early, it causes skepticism and doubt. All right. So when I talk about the vehicle, of what you're selling, you need to focus on the thing that makes you different than all the other people who are doing the same thing. And before I go into that, I'll also say a lot of times on the sales page, instead of someone coming out and saying, oh hi, I'm so-so, this is how I can help you A lot of time business owners will also come out and say, okay, now, this is the product and this is going to help you solve your problem, again without addressing the vehicle.

Gina:

So let me give you an example of the vehicle. So let's say you're a health and fitness coach, fitness coach Okay, the vehicle that you're actually selling may be that personalized, one-to-one accountability that you're giving that person, opposed to other people who are just bringing someone into, like a group coaching program, right? So it might be the one-to-one personalized experience that you're selling that's really going to make a difference in their lives. Or it could be that personalized customized meal plan macro plan that you're going to make a difference in their lives. Or it could be that personalized customized meal plan macro plan that you're going to give that person that other coaches aren't doing.

Gina:

Or perhaps you're a business coach and you have a very specific strategy or time-saving system that's going to bring them a certain result. So, before you introduce yourself or even the program, you need to say I'm trying to think off the cuff here of, like a statement you could say, my proven time-saving business system I wouldn't use those exact words my proven time-saving system is the fastest way to growing the business you want and getting those right fit customers. Or blank, blank, blank, you know whatever, right? So you're really selling that vehicle, that thing that makes you different, that thing that's going to bring them results. And then you say, hi, I'm so-and-so, I'm the one that's now going to guide you. And then you go into and here's the program that's going to get you those results.

Alyssa:

I love how you broke that down. That was really simple. I never thought of it that way. The thing that makes you different is the vehicle, and to know what makes you different, you also need to know who your right audience is. And so that comes we. I mean, we're full circle here, coming back right into the whole research piece, because unless if you don't know your audience, then it's very hard to create a sales page, create the good copy and know the vehicle that you're selling to them, which is what makes you different. And so talk to me about the right audience. So you've tested with the about page workshop. You've tested a few different ways of getting that workshop in front of people.

Alyssa:

You've done Facebook ads, you've done freebie swaps, and it's funny because in the industry, everybody is all about Facebook ads, google ads, ads, ads, ads. And the problem I find with that is that, okay, that's great, but you're you're going to a cold audience, you're promoting to a cold audience, so you're spending more money and it's getting more competitive, more saturated. And so you're spending more money and it's getting more competitive, more saturated, and so you're up against competitors who can spend thousands of dollars. And if you're a solopreneur, like you're a small business, you might not have the budget against these big, these bigger, bigger businesses, and so I want to know from your experience what has worked best for you, like, what have you learned about finding and connecting with the right audience? And you know because you've done Facebook ads, you've done the freebie swaps. What would you recommend for solopreneurs do if they're just not sure about where to market first?

Gina:

Right, okay, so I'll be the first to say that I mean I love meta ads and in fact, if so, going back to my story in the beginning, when I had a different business anyways, I did that business for a couple of years and I stepped away, got really involved with my kids, school and stuff and I just felt like, okay, I need to step away from online business for a while. And then, a couple of years later, I came back in and I knew I didn't want to do business coaching, but I wanted to do something. And so I was going between, okay, do I want to, like, hone in on my copywriting skills, because I know that every business needs good copy, right and that, or do I want to really dig into Facebook ads, because I started using them way back in 2013. And that was like, at the back of the day, when you can get a lead for 50 cents, I mean it's just so good, and I'm such a data driven person Like I love looking at the numbers, and so I really kind of waffle between both and I decided I didn't want to do the ads because, well, basically it's like always changing, the algorithm is always changing and I didn't want to keep up with it and with copywriting. Those principles are always staying the same. So, anyways, with that said, when I put that workshop together, when you and I partnered on that which, by the way, the workshops how to it's called how to convert I have to remember this how to write an about page that converts visitors into buyers, all right.

Gina:

So my first immediate thought was okay, I'm going to start running ads to this. And so at the end of March, I put a good amount of money into ads. I definitely built my email list, but no one was buying through the email sequence. And so I thought okay, I'm not having a hard time getting people onto the list. People are converting from the sales page, but they're not buying through the email sequence. So then I went back and I made some changes to the email sequence. And then I did another test two months later and I still came across the same problem. And then, you know, you and I started chatting in the DMs and we're like what is going on here? And for a while it frustrated me too, because I'm like I know I have something really good here that's going to help people. Everybody needs help with their about page.

Gina:

And you and I went back and forth about maybe changing the way we packaged up this workshop. Okay, well then fast forward a few weeks later and I met with someone who wanted to do a freebie swap. So he sent out my um, my about page checklist. So I have a free checklist for your about page, and then that leads to the tripwire page that has the workshop. So he sent that checklist to his list and within well, the first day, I made a sale.

Gina:

And then, as people were going through my email sequence, which is about a three week email sequence, in the middle of it I was getting sales, and not only were they buying the workshop, they were buying the upsells, which were copy audits too. So you and I put this whole funnel together right, and so that was really good and it taught me something. It really taught me that, first, don't give up on your offer If at first it goes out there and no one's buying it. You have to look at those different things Like first you look at the copy on the sales page, you know, is it really speaking to the right person? You know. And then, and then I think, the second thing, before you change your offer, cause I think we're so quick to just go and change things.

Gina:

I think the second thing is to go and figure out if you're giving it to the right audience so that that meta ads audience that is a full on cold audience. They don't know me, but I think there's something to say about doing the freebie swaps, because you have someone who's recommending you, so you have, kind of like in my mind, a more cold slash, warm audience. Right, there's that trust factor that's built in because someone is saying, hey, meet my friend who has this right. And you are getting it and you're getting in front of an audience too that is, um, oh, how would I say? It's particular? It's, it's a particular audience for that person. But you want to do these swaps and collaborate with people who have your same target audience that you're looking for, right? So it's already a curated audience. Does that make sense?

Alyssa:

Yes, it does. And I have to say I was super surprised by your freebie swaps, like when you had mentioned that they worked so well, because everyone and I mean everyone on the internet talks about having this big audience as the number one factor for getting sales. If you don't have a big audience, it's going to be a lot harder to sell to. But I don't think that's true. I feel like the freebie sw it is a curated audience. They're nurtured already from the previous person who you're doing the freebie swap with. There's already trust built and it's like a warm, hot email list. I mean, why not? And you're not spending any money to do a freebie swap either.

Gina:

Oh my gosh, that's just so true, I think. About what I spent on the ads, I don't regret it. I don't regret it at all because I learned a lot from it and I just look at it as collecting data Right. And I'm not saying either that I would never go back to it. I definitely will at some point. I think we could package the workshop in a different way that might fit a cold audience better, way that might fit a cold audience better. I think you and I have kind of gone back and forth about that a lot or a bit, so maybe I will do that in the future. But yeah, no, this has really worked. This has really worked for me so far.

Gina:

So I'm just continuing to meet with other people. You know, making it a goal of mine, like every month meet with as many people, see if you're a good fit.

Alyssa:

You definitely want to see if you're a good fit before you collaborate and then do the freebie swap and I also think that maybe they're not as popular because they don't know how to set it up between, like, how to collaborate with somebody else or what to ask for and like. So maybe it's just not as talked about, because it's just something that maybe is more difficult to set up. I mean, who knows, but I feel like there should be more collaborations going on because that, as you know, as we all know, networking and connecting and recommending other people, it creates a level of trust and it makes people want to work with you, want to buy from you, etc. So, now that you know, I'm just curious because you have. You know, you've done the ads, you've done the freebie swaps, you post online, you have your great podcast and you give amazing advice. But if everything you've built up until this point disappeared tomorrow and you only had the next 60 seconds to share something with solopreneurs, what would be the most useful thought you'd want to leave them with.

Gina:

Gosh. I think I would just say not to give up. I think people give up too soon in their business. You know, I think that if you stay with it for the long haul you'll be successful, because most people give up and I think it really takes quite a few years to build a solid business. Even when I talked to my husband about it, he's like, yeah, the average is like three years just to get your business up and going, and I don't know if that's right. I don't know if that statistic is right, but it sounds pretty good to me. So I think it just takes time. It takes time to hone in on your skills and the products that you're putting out there, the services that you're putting out there. It takes time to figure out who do you actually want to work with.

Gina:

The first year I was a copywriter. I basically took every job that came my way so that I could get better at copywriting. I could also figure out who I wanted to work with, who I didn't want to work with. It also helped me figure out losing my thought here. It made me figure out who I didn't want to work with and who I did want to work with, oh, and the type of businesses I wanted to write copy for, you know, so that when I went into my second year, then I really had an idea of who I wanted to niche down and serve. I can really, yeah, and from there on, I, yeah.

Gina:

I think, once you really hone in on who your potential client is, your target audience, who you want to serve right, because you can't serve everybody I think if you have a very general message that goes out there, it's not going to speak to anybody.

Gina:

Yes, so yeah, if you take the time to really explore and see who you want to work with, you know what energizes you, who energizes you, who does the opposite, then you're really going to hone in on it, and then you just just keep plugging away at it. You know, get, try different things. You're going to have things that you put out there, products, ideas that totally flop. And I heard someone say a very, very long time ago, when I first got into the online world like 10, or has this been 10 or 12 years now that the more you fail, like, the closer you are to success. I really like that, because the more you fail yeah, the more you fail, the more you figure out what doesn't work until you finally get to that thing that does work. You have to hear a lot of no's.

Alyssa:

Until you get to that, yes, I have goosebumps because it's true, you know I have been at my business for about 45 years now and I had to take a bit of a pause. You know having children and you know toddling and all the family obligations there, and so I've had to really look at my business and see, okay, like were there certain clients that I could not work with because it took too much of my time, and just making sure that that balanced with my family life and my lifestyle. And it's not a straight line either, like I do feel, like you might be. You have good years where it's like maybe one or two years of like you're making killer money, and then the next year it's like what happened. And then the next year it's like you know, we did okay. It's just like it's so kind of up and down, but that is entrepreneurship. It's all dependent on the economy and how well you know if. If everybody's making money, then you're going to be making money as well. If everybody is like really cautious with their spending and their marketing budget and all the things that they want to do but they can't do, if they're on some kind of restriction, then then you're going to be feeling that pinch and so, um, I like what you said about. You know, do not give up.

Alyssa:

And I do agree with that, because I was even in that position where I was like, oh my God, do I stay, do I go? Do I close? Do I get just a regular nine to five job? And then I realized that, right, no, I could never. I could never go back to that, um, that kind of lifestyle of corporate. It just wasn't for me anymore. Um. But also, I do want to also mention that if you are creating a product, you have to give yourself at least six months with it. You know, I think people are so quick to just be like it's not selling, so I'm just going to build something else, because you don't actually know until the numbers show you that nobody is interested. And so if you're seeing a steady decline, then yeah, maybe you should look at the offer itself or the messaging or the different factors. But if you have considered all of that and it's still failing, then yeah, go ahead and change your product. But at most case you can fix what's wrong before it gets to that point.

Gina:

I agree, I agree Don't compare or just like, don't assume that other people's products are just like they're selling so quickly. I think that's what we do. Is we look and say, okay, well, this person just launched something and, oh, look, they got this many people into their group program or whatever you know, or I sold this many of this product. You just, you can't go off of that. You just can't Because, first of all, you just don't even know if they're telling the truth.

Gina:

When it comes down to group programs, they might say, oh gosh, I filled it with this many people. But you know, hopefully, hopefully, they're telling the truth, but it may be people that they let in for free because they had to get it going Right. So we just have to be careful not to compare. And I mean, if you put something out there and two or three people take it, then you know, ok, there's people out there that want it. Give as much as you can to those two or three people so that you can gain those really great testimonials and then relaunch it again, use that language and just keep making it better.

Alyssa:

Yes, of course. Like, even if one person signs up, run the program because that testimonial is going to drive the next sale. Yes, I know People get really discouraged because they're like, oh my God, only one person joined my program and it's like, yeah, that's what happens. But guess what? The round two is going to be double that and then you're going to continue growing. So you have to just don't get into that all or nothing mindset, cause that's where you can feel like it's just, you're just a failure upon failure. You're not at all Having at least one person. Oh my goodness, that's amazing. Like, keep going. So, yeah, I love that. And so, just to wrap things up, I think a lot of people are listening, can really relate to what we're talking about, and I know that there are probably listeners who want to learn more about you or connect with you after this chat. So where is the best place for them to find you?

Gina:

online. Okay, well, the one place I always am is that's my website. That's my home. So you could go to wwwwhitehousesmcom and that's where you can learn more about me, the services I offer. If you click on the resources tab, you'll see some free resources there. That's where you'll see the workshop that you and I put together. So if you need help with your about page, it's a really good workshop, because a lot of us are missing things on our page. It should be.

Gina:

I like to say that it's our secret sales page, actually right, because 52% of people who hit your homepage will always go to your about page next, and so it shouldn't be a bio or a resume. It needs to be a page where you connect with that person, show how you're the expert to help them and then lead them to that next step or that sale action that you want them to take. So you can go to my webpage. I'm on social media. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram and that's at whitehousestrategymarketing, and you can listen to my podcast, seven Figure Copy. It's a seasonal podcast, so I don't know when this podcast is coming out yet, but I just launched season two. So season two is really fun, because the whole theme for the season is getting people to say yes to your offers. So if you need help in that area, you could always go there, and my first season was actually about how to set yourself up as an expert. So, and in season two, I have an episode there it's number 22 where I brought on Alyssa.

Alyssa:

So yes, it was great. It was an awesome conversation. Just really go look at it, it was really fun.

Gina:

So I think that's it. I don't know if I'm forgetting anything. Website social media podcast.

Alyssa:

Yeah, definitely look at the About Page Workshop, because that one was, it was it's. There's so many nuggets and so much information on there. Like you just don't hold back, you just reveal everything. It's so detailed, so definitely. You just reveal everything. It's so detailed, um, so definitely, look at that. I'll put that, you'll see it in the show notes of this episode. So thank you so much for being here, gina, and sharing all of your insights and wisdom with us today.

Alyssa:

Thank, you for having me alissa yeah, and so for everyone listening, thank you for tuning in. If you did love this episode, send me a message on Instagram. Yeslabca, that's my new Instagram handle, and let me know the one thing that Gina shared that really stood out to you. Thanks so much for listening and I'll see you next time with more brilliant ideas to inspire your business. Thanks for tuning into this episode of Brilliant Ideas. If you love the show, be sure to leave a review and follow me on Instagram for even more insider tips and inspiration. Ready to bring your next big, brilliant idea to life? Visit AlyssaVelsercom for resources, guidance and everything you need to start creating something amazing.